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Post by egypt1101 on Feb 23, 2012 14:18:15 GMT -5
Egyptian Body Size: A Regional and Worldwide ComparisonThis study uses skeletal measurements of postcrania to investigate biocultural and ecogeographic questions in Egyptian groups in comparison to Nubians and other populations in the world. "Ancient Egyptians as a whole generally exhibit intermediate body breadths relative to higher and lower latitude populations, with Lower Egyptians possessing wider body breadths, as well as lower brachial and crural indices, compared to Upper Egyptians and Upper Nubians. This may suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups, but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments. These results may also reflect the greater plasticity of limb length compared to body breadth. ...It can be seen that previous stature estimation methods tend to overestimate Egyptian stature for both sexes. The present studys stature estimates (bolded) are about 1-3 cm less than that of other studies for the same time periods, with an average 1.5 cm difference. New Kingdom pharaoh males may have been taller because of their higher status, however Robins and Shute (1983) used Trotter and Glesers (1958) equations for American Blacks to estimate their statures is the mean using regression formulae for the femur). Raxter et al. (2008) showed that although ancient Egyptians proportions are closer to American Blacks than they are to American Whites, they are not identical. Stature regression equations derived from American Black populations may therefore not be appropriate to estimate the statures of ancient Egyptians. ...The fact that limb proportions in ancient Egyptians are somewhat more “tropical” may reflect the greater lability of limb length compared to body breadth. The results may also suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups and have retained those body breadths acquired earlier in time, but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments. The present results for bi-iliac breadth are also consistent with various genetic studies that have found modern Egyptians to have close affinities to Middle and Near Easterners (Manni et al., 2002; Arredi et al., 2004; Shepard and Herrera, 2006; Rowold et al., 2007) and Southern Europeans/Mediterranean groups (Capelli et al., 2006). Some of these authors suggested their results may have been associated with a diffusion from the Near East during the expansion of early food-producing societies (Arredi et al., 2004; Rowold et al., 2007).... MK, NK, and Roman-Byzantine Nubian males exhibit greater stature variation than their Egyptian counterparts from the same periods, with Nubian males possessing more variation compared to Nubian females. The greater variation in Nubian males may be indicative of greater in-migration of and intermarriage with foreign males. (Raxter; 2011) More @: scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4500&context=etd
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Post by Noah on Feb 23, 2012 20:52:56 GMT -5
Way to start the long overdue limb proportion thread! This is valuable, logical info, to be sure. It's good to have in print a comprehensive study that states outright that although a) "limb proportions in ancient Egyptians are somewhat more “tropical”", b) this actually "may reflect the greater lability of limb length compared to body breadth", and c) "the results may also suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups and have retained those body breadths acquired earlier in time, but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments."We already know from data I posted a while ago in the Real vs. Bogus Affinities of the Ancient Egyptians thread just how labile or subject to change limb length ratios can be. The authors' assertions in the study quoted above are spot on since there have been (and are) various other real world examples of such quickly acquired tropical or cold-adapted limb proportions, and primarily via morphological adaptation to boot. For instance: - Neighboring peoples in South America from related ethnic groups were found to have evolved markedly different limb proportions due to one group having adapted to a higher, colder elevation than the others from lower, more tropical elevations.
"Living human populations from high altitudes in the Andes exhibit relatively short limbs compared with neighboring groups from lower elevations as adaptations to cold climates characteristic of high-altitude environments."
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.20137/abstract
- Even African Americans do not consistently show the tropical limb ratios of their West African ancestors. While some are still tropically adapted, many others actually have a cold-adapted body plan as a consequence of both admixture with cold-adapted peoples (modern Europeans and Native Americans) and localized adaptation. And this change in their limb ratios at the population level did not take place over thousands of years, but instead over just a few hundred years of living in North America.
"The argument from morphology depends on the presupposition that body proportions are to a large degree genetically controlled. The fact that contemporary African Americans do not have tropical limb proportions but have in a few hundred years changed to more European body proportions (through adaptation to new climate plus intermixture with Europeans and First Nations Peoples) puts this claim into perspective (Pat Shipman, adjunct professor of biological anthropology, Pennsylvania State University, personal communication, 14 May 2004)."
books.google.ca/books?id=n7-BHoeyStgC&pg=PA350#v=onepage&q&f=false
The authors are also correct about the ultimate circum-Mediterranean derivation of the Ancient Egyptians since Horners -- who, other than of course modern Egyptians, Northwest Africans and certain Nubians, are the nearest relatives in Africa of the Ancient Egyptians -- also possess essentially Mediterranean trunk and overall body proportions despite evincing tropically adapted distal limb segments/extremities (forearms and lower legs). And now we know at least in part why. Here again is what Carleton Coon concluded with regard to the Horners he examined: "The hands and feet of all but the palpably negroid are small and extremely narrow, the lower legs and wrists usually spindly and ill-muscled. This attenuation of the distal segments of the limbs reaches its maximum among the Somalis[...] The bodily build of the African Hamites is typically Mediterranean in the ratio of arms, legs, and trunk, but the special attenuation of the extremities among the Somalis is a strong local feature, which finds its closest parallels outside the white racial group, in southern India and in Australia." Billy et al. (1988) also confirmed this still extant Mediterranean morphological affinity:
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Post by Noah on Sept 25, 2012 2:40:47 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more the continued emphasis on limb ratios as a supposedly useful tool for ascertaining the racial origins of the Ancient Egyptians seems a mistake. Arguing that certain early Near Eastern specimens had borderline tropically adapted body plans will only prompt Afrocentrists to retort that this is because "they too were black". They'll then undoubtedly whip out that now infamous (and incorrect) blanket quote from Hanihara (1996) to support their position; namely, that "early West Asians resemble Africans". The fact is, the actual limb proportions of the Ancient Egyptians seem unclear and inconsistent, at best. Some of these specimens, like in the studies cited in the table below, appear tropically adapted; others, perhaps not as much. It really makes no difference either way. This is because until relatively recently, most Europeans -- who ultimately expanded into Europe from the Near East, not directly from tropical Africa -- also had tropical limb ratios. "Upper Palaeolithic humans not only were taller and had more robust bones in comparison with the Linear Band Pottery Culture Neolithic people; they also had longer limbs, a shorter trunk and, similar to modern African people, very long forearms and crural segments. The low brachial index* is a very recently acquired characteristic of White Europeans."
hormones.gr/preview.php?c_id=127
So what are Afrocentrists now to argue? That most Europeans until not that long ago were "Tropical Africans" (read: Negroid) as well? Let's get real. Tropical limb proportions are clearly something approaching the default, original body plan for anatomically modern humans/AMH. It's cold adaptation that's the derived condition, and fairly recently at that. Various papers, like the one above, state this outright. The real battle, then, is in affirming the Hamitic origins of haplogroup E. Because when (not if) aDNA/ancient DNA tests are run on Ancient Egyptians specimens, many if not most will almost certainly belong to the clade -- just like their already tested Meroitic kin to the south, the ancient Guanche of the Canary Islands, and most modern Hamitic peoples in North Africa and the Horn region.
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Post by Noah on Sept 25, 2012 16:14:29 GMT -5
That is pretty much how most Afrocentrists operate. This is despite the fact that few of them have even the slightest ties with the Afro-Asiatic communities they talk 24/7 about, invariably at the expense of their own people. It's an open secret that the average Afrocentrist has self-love and hypocrisy issues. It has actually been made fun of many times, and by members of their own community no less. Like in the amusing scene below from an old Wayans brothers movie.
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Post by Noah on Oct 2, 2012 22:49:02 GMT -5
The multi-regional hypothesis has its merits; especially in terms of paleoanthropology. However, the main problem with it is that it doesn't adequately explain the modern global distribution pattern of mtDNA lineages.
Haplogroup L3 is the Eurasian Eve, the parent clade to all maternal lineages found today outside of Africa. On its face, this supports an early dispersal model from Africa for anatomically modern humans... unless it can be shown that L3 itself originated outside of the continent. Researchers claim that this hasn't yet been demonstrated. This assumption, however, hinges on the notion that the various L3 samples found today in Europe and Asia stem from relatively recent admixture with L3 carriers from Africa. This may not actually be the case, though. At least some of those clades may instead have been in Eurasia for several thousand years. The actual situation will be made clearer once more old human specimens are sampled for ancient DNA/aDNA. That's what it will all come down to in the end i.e. actual testing.
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Post by Atlantid on Oct 3, 2012 14:46:03 GMT -5
The multi-regional hypothesis has its merits; especially in terms of paleoanthropology. However, the main problem with it is that it doesn't adequately explain the modern global distribution pattern of mtDNA lineages. Haplogroup L3 is the Eurasian Eve, the parent clade to all maternal lineages found today outside of Africa. On its face, this supports an early dispersal model from Africa for anatomically modern humans... unless it can be shown that L3 itself originated outside of the continent. Researchers claim that this hasn't yet been demonstrated. This assumption, however, hinges on the notion that the various L3 samples found today in Europe and Asia stem from relatively recent admixture with L3 carriers from Africa. This may not actually be the case, though. At least some of those clades may instead have been in Eurasia for several thousand years. The actual situation will be made clearer once more old human specimens are sampled for ancient DNA/aDNA. That's what it will all come down to in the end i.e. actual testing. Multiregionalists raise several points about DNA here: (a) The reliability of the molecular clock hypothesis (MCH). (b) mtDNA transmission. (c) Recombination. Firstly (a) is challenged by the fact the nature of dating DNA is incredibly complicated by mutation rates. In the 1990's an age around 400,000 years was given for “Eve”. Moving ahead to 2004, Eve became 200,000 years old, while as of today, the figure 100,000 - 150,000 commonly appears in literature. There is no accurate "molecular clock" because mutation rates vary. Secondly (b) mtDNA transmission may not be strictly from the mother. This may surprise many, but recent papers have shown paternal mtDNA transmission in numerous species, including humans. This is obviously a serious blow to the "Eve" theory, which strictly relies on mtDNA to be maternal and then attempts to date it through a constant mutation rate (which is flawed anyway). Third (c) random DNA recombination, which can imitate common descent or invent lineages that don't exist. As an example: ''Now such evidence appears to have been found in a mtDNA research project led by Erika Hagelberg on the tiny island of Nguna, in the archipelago of Vanuatu in Melanesia (west of Polynesia including the Solomon Islands and Fiji). Studying human migrations, Hagelberg and her colleagues were analyzing hundreds of people from Papua-New Guinea and Melanesia. MtDNA samples on Nguna Island showed, as expected, three main population groups from colonizations over thousands of years. But in all three there also occurred a single mutation previously only known from one northern European. Hagenberg and her colleagues (1999) think it highly improbable for such a rare mutation event to occur repeatedly in such an isolated location. A more likely explanation would be recombination between different mitochondrial DNA types.
Similar conclusions were drawn by Adam Eyre-Walker and his colleagues at Sussex University, from statistical analysis of “homeoplasies,” common mutations in mitochondrial proteins that occur in seemingly distinct lineages around the world. Assuming maternal inheritance only of mtDNA, these were thought to be “hypervariable” sites where mutations occurred with high frequency. Review of some European and African mtDNA sequences by Eyre-Walker et al., however, show no evidence that these sites are particularly variable over all lineages. Most of these mutations were found in only a limited geographic area, suggesting they occurred rarely and then spread locally by recombination, which appears a far more likely cause of the homeoplasies.
Such findings, if upheld, seriously complicate the basis of using mtDNA to provide straightforward genetic lines, such as assumed in the Mitochondrial Eve hypothesis. The surprising homogeneity in the mtDNA of modern humans interpreted, in the Mitochondrial Eve hypothesis, as resulting from a recent common ancestor, may simply show the dilution of mutations caused by the recombination of mtDNA.''www.athenapub.com/molclock.htm
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Post by Noah on Oct 6, 2012 23:35:35 GMT -5
Great info! Will certainly come in handy.
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Post by Atlantid on Oct 13, 2012 16:33:39 GMT -5
Great info! Will certainly come in handy. A new article on the problem: Science 12 October 2012: Vol. 338 no. 6104 pp. 189-191 DOI: 10.1126/science.338.6104.189 Turning Back the Clock: Slowing the Pace of Prehistory Ann Gibbons Researchers have used the number of mutations in DNA like a molecular clock to date key events in human evolution. Now it seems that the molecular clock ticks more slowly than anyone had thought, and many dates may need to be adjusted.
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Post by Atlantid on Jan 1, 2013 14:32:53 GMT -5
Estimation of Stature and Body Mass From the Skeleton Among Coastal and Mid-Altitude Andean Populations Pomeroy and Stock (2012)
"Although crural indices are not stated in most other studies, the mean stature of the Andean samples is 10 cm shorter than Be´guelin’s (2011) Patagonians, and shorter than Genove´s’ (1967) Mexican samples by 4.5 cm and 7 cm in females and males, respectively. Differences from Sciulli and Hetland’s (2007) Ohio samples are similar to those for the Great Plains sample of Auerbach and Ruff (2010). The Andean samples also have high crural indices compared with recent Europeans (pooled sex crural index 5 82.9: Holliday, 1997a,b) but more similar to those of recent North and Sub-Saharan Africans (85.0 and 86.1 for sexes pooled: Holliday, 1997a,b). Although Andean populations tend to be relatively short compared with North or Sub-Saharan Africans, others have used this similarity in crural indices to justify the application of Trotter and Gleser’s equations to other samples from the Americas (e.g., Auerbach and Ruff, 2004). As these equations have also been used for Andean samples it is relevant to explore their accuracy." Stature Estimation Formulae for Indigenous North American Populations Auerbach and Ruff (2010)
"Groups exhibit a considerable range in statures and proportions. As shown in Table 2, male mean group statures range more than 30 cm between the shortest (the Nuu-chal-nulth, 146.31 cm) and the tallest (individuals from the Donaldson site, 178.19 cm). A slightly lower range exists among female mean group statures (141.18– 166.13 cm). This scope of statures is similar to the ranges reported by Eveleth and Tanner (1976) in New World living populations. Crural indices, likewise, exhibit a great diversity, ranging from 75.69 to 90.77 for males, and 75.97 to 90.74 for females. The range of crural indices in this New World sample is almost as great as the range reported for Europe and Africa (Holliday, 1995), which are between 75.00 and 91.59 for males, and between 78.00 and 90.43 for females (calculated from Holliday’s raw data; Holliday, pers. comm.). The variability in linear body proportions suggests that, to minimize estimation errors, multiple stature equations should be developed for the indigenous North American groups."
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