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Post by Noah on Aug 20, 2011 21:19:31 GMT -5
Below is the definition of the Caucasoid race from Grolier's Encyclopedia Americana (2001), including the Hamitic branch: "CAUCASOID, ko'ka-soid, one of the major racial groups of mankind found in Europe, the Americas. North Africa, the Middle East, and India. "Caucasoid" or "Caucasian" is often equated with "white," but this is inaccurate because the group includes many populations of dark complexion. The term was coined by Johann Friedrich Blumenbach in the 18th century because the skull he took as typical for the group was that of the Georgian women from the Caucasus. Blumenbach thought the type may have originated in the Caucasus, but in fact no one knows. Skin color among Caucasoids varies from pale, reddish-white to dark brown. Head hair varies from silky straight to curly. It is almost never woolly, and the individual hairs are seldom as coarse or as sparsely distributed as in Mongoloids. In males, the hair on the face and over the rest of the body is usually well developed. All forms of head shape occur, but the general tendency is to broadheadedness (brachycephaly). The nose tends to be comparatively narrow and projecting. The cheekbones are generally not prominent, and the lips tend to vary from thin to moderately developed. The face tends to be straight (orthognathic), and the forehead is comparatively high.
REPRESENTATIVE CAUCASOID POPULATIONS
Basic Mediterranean: Best seen among the Portuguese, Spaniards, and some English and Welsh; in North Africa among the Hamitic-speaking peoples; in Arabia; and among the Berbers of Morocco.
Atlanto-Mediterranean: Principal element in the population of North Africa; strongly represented in Iraq, Israel, parts of Arabia, and the eastern Balkans, and to some extent in Portugal, Spain, and the British Isles.
Irano-Afghan Mediterranean: The principal element in the populations of Iran, Afghanistan, the Turkoman country, found also in parts of India, Arabia, and North Africa.
Nordic: The characteristic type of Scandinavia, found with varying frequencies in Iceland, Frisian Islands, British Isles, Belgium, the Netherlands, and the north central European plain, which is bounded by Russia on the east, and Poland and Northern Germany on the west.
Alpine: The populations concentrated along a mountainous range extending from France along the Alps, through the Balkans and into the mountains of Asia Minor, and northwest into Russia and Siberia. The type is found sporadically throughout Europe.
Dinaric: Sometimes called Adriatic or Illyrian. The type is found from eastern Switzerland through the Austrian Tyrol, Yugoslavia, and Albania.
Armenoid: Found in Asia Minor to the east and southeast of the Black Sea.
Hamitic: Essentially Basic Mediterraneans ranging over the greater part of North and East Africa. They comprise the Northern Hamites: the Libyans, or Mediterranean Berbers of Cyrenaica, Tripolitania, Tunisia, and Algeria; the Atlantic Berbers of Morocco such as the Kabyles; the West Saharan Berbers, or Tuaregs; the Tibu of East Sahara: the Fula or Fulani of Nigeria; and the extinct Guanche of the Canary Islands. The Eastern Hamites comprise the ancient and modern Egyptians, now much mixed with Arabic elements, and the Nubians, Beja, Galla, Somali, Danakil, and most Ethiopians."
books.google.ca/books?id=HI1FAAAAYAAJ&q=%22in+Arabia;+and+among+the+Berbers+of+Morocco%22&dq=%22in+Arabia;+and+among+the+Berbers+of+Morocco%22&hl=en&ei=TV5QTqztGaLv0gGz4rT9Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA
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Post by theleader9 on Aug 20, 2011 22:01:35 GMT -5
Brother you forgot about Indo Melanid
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Post by hamiticsister101 on Aug 21, 2011 5:19:54 GMT -5
You mean Indid- Mediterannean, but I think Indid-Dravidian is just one other branch.
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Post by Noah on Aug 21, 2011 17:34:02 GMT -5
Well guys, there have been various classifications/taxonomies attempted for Caucasoid peoples at the sub-racial level, so they tend to vary. In general, though, it is agreed that the primary Caucasoid component in South Asia is a fine-boned Proto-Mediterranean type, one not all that different from the Mediterranean stock from which the Paleo-Hamites branched off of. "Amongst the earliest arrivals into [the] Indian sub-continent were long-headed people of Palaeo-Mediterranean stock, who came in successive waves. They were closely related with the Proto-Mediterranean or Proto-Egyptian Brown Race and were long, narrow- headed people, having medium to tall stature, possessed relatively long, narrow faces, low orbit, and vertical forehead with protruding occiput and mesorrhine nose. Later waves of this race belonged to the more basic stock of the Mediterranean race. Their skeletal remains have been recovered from the Chalcolithic sites of the Indus Valley (Harappa, 1963, Mohenjo-daro, 1931) etc. and further west from the Aeneolithic sites of Iran and Mesopotamia. They now form a dominant element among the populations of North India and the upper classes." nsdl.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/339/1/pdf+4.4+NISCAIR-Racial-Ethnic-Relgious-Linguistic-Groups-India-Text-Revised.pdfThis is similar to the Brown Race concept, which the famous Egyptologist, neuro-anatomist and gentleman-scholar Grafton Elliot Smith helped popularize. We know now from genome-wide studies that this Brown Race is actually a Caucasoid sub-division. It's a common West Eurasian genetic component that ties together all of these various constituent brown-skinned populations.
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Post by hamiticsister101 on Aug 22, 2011 1:44:47 GMT -5
You mean the "Brown-Red" Race? Of course that is what we are.
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Post by Noah on Sept 7, 2012 5:39:16 GMT -5
Great points, certainly. The fact that to this day Caucasoid-origin peoples still cluster together craniometrically alone says a lot.
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Post by preddinarid on Oct 2, 2012 12:23:07 GMT -5
How common is the Dinarid sub-type in Italy?
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Post by Noah on Oct 2, 2012 23:08:35 GMT -5
Greetings preddinarid! Welcome to the HU. Dinaric morphology can also be viewed as a physiological trend or process of dinaricization that is frequent in certain Caucasoid populations. Here is how Carleton Coon explained the principle in his The Races of Europe: "From France to Macedonia, and from Istanbul to Samarakand, are found populations in which the majority of persons present a characteristic morphology of the head and face; with a brachycephalic skull, often flattish in the occipital region, the foramen magnum and auricular passages set disproportionately far to the rear, the forehead often sloping, the face frequently elongated, and the nose salient and frequently convex. People who possess these characteristics have been lumped together into one or more races; the Dinaric in Europe, the Arrmenoid in Asia, and the Noric to include the blond varieties. It is biologically unsound, however, to postulate any historic unity for individuals of these so-called races, since they are products not of an historical association but of a biological principle. That principle is as follows: A mixture of a Mediterranean stock with a 33 per cent, more or less, solution of Alpine may bring about a differential inheritance in the majority of the offspring; from the Alpine side is inherited brachycephaly, often greater than that of the Alpine ancestral factor; the dimensions of the pre-auricular part of the head are derived from the long-headed strain, hence the posterior position of the ear; the breadths of the median sagittal sector of the face are inherited from the narrower-faced ancestor, often in exaggerated degree, and this applies especially to the width of the upper segment of the nose and to the interorbital distance; meanwhile the face often becomes longer than in either parent stock, and the nose, in response to the shortening of the antero-posterior length of the entire head, becomes salient. This process occurs in varying degrees with individuals and with local racial entities of different origin. If the solution is saturated either with Alpines or with Mediterraneans, phenotypically pure members of whichever stock is predominant appear in considerable numbers. If the solution is correct, such apparently pure individuals still occur, but with relative infrequence."
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Post by preddinarid on Oct 7, 2012 1:05:51 GMT -5
This is interesting. The description highlighted in bold describes me pretty well. However, I also have Mediterranid and Nordic influences in some regions. I'm primarily Dinarid-Atlantid. That's what I've been classified as once before. I think I have a lot of different Caucasoid phenotypes in my appearance.
I think the Dinarid type originated in the near East though, no?
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Post by Atlantid on Oct 7, 2012 8:43:49 GMT -5
On this subject of subraces, I tend to follow the "old school" of Czekanowski, who devised the Law of Frequency of Type, through mathamatical formula. Subraces 1.á =Nordic race 2.å =Ibero-Insular race (Gracile Mediterrranean race) 3.ë =Lapponoid race 4.÷ =Armenoid race Composite microraces 1.é =Northwestern mixed type (Atlantid race) 2.ã =Subnordic mixed type 3.ù =Alpine mixed type 4.ñ =Littoral mixed type 5.â =Pile Dwelling mixed type 6.ä =Dinaric mixed type You will note Czekanowski believed that Alpines were a mixed (composite) microrace of Lapponoid and Armenoid subraces. This is probably wrong, but his tables and formula are very useful in explaining micro and subraces. Edit: The symbols for the table aren't coming out well on my keyboard, so ignore them.
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Post by Atlantid on Oct 7, 2012 14:00:51 GMT -5
Renato Biasutti on Caucasoid Subraces Le Razze e i popoli della terra, 1954, vol. 1, pp. 409-410
Mediterranean
Skin color “matte”-white or brunet-white, chestnust or dark chestnut eyes and hair, not excessive pilosity; medium-low stature (162), body of moderately longilinear forms; dolichomorphic skull (78) with rounded occiput; oval face; leptorrhine nose (68) with straight spine, horizontal or inclined downwards base of the septum; large open eyes.
Nordic
Maximum depigmentation; rosy-white skin, blond hair (from ash-white to blond chestnut), light blue or grey iris; rather abundant pilosity; elevated stature (173), longilinear body; dolichomorphic skull (75), with wide and somewhat retreating forehead, low vault, prominent occiput; high and narrow face, well-profiled nose with compressed nostrils (<60), straight spine, often aquiline, base of the septum often inclined upwards; deep eye not very open; hyperorthognathous mouth with thin lips.
Orientalid
Brunet-white color, very dark hair and eyes, abbundant pilosity; medium stature (165), slim body; very long (74) and high head with prominent occiput; long face; large and high nose with root at the level of the forehead, straight or convex spine, strongly curved nostrils (64); full lips, robust chin.
Indid
Somewhat intense brown color, dark hair and eyes, strong pilosity; high stature (172), slim body; accentuated dolichocephaly (74); nose with salient spine, with a clear sub-glabellar depression, leptorrhine (65); full lips, short chin.
Alpine
Opaque-white skin color, chestnust hair and eyes; medium stature (164), stocky body build with short neck, broad pelvis and shoulders, somewhat short limbs; wide skull (87) rather low, with rounded occiput; wide roundish face, short nose with straight or concave profile, somewhat large nostrils (70).
Baltid
Ivory-white skin, straight fine hair, from chestnut to blond, predominantly light eyes; medium stature (165), sturdy body build; rather short skull (82) and high; short nose with concave spine and elevated tip, slightly dilated nostrils (66), wide angular face, pronounced cheeks, wide chin.
Dinaric
Brunet-white skin, straight hair, chestnut or dark chestnut, sometimes lighter eyes; high stature (174), robust body build with long legs, but high transverse diameters of the trunk; short skull (85) and quite high, with flattened occiput; large nose, leptorrhine (62) with straight or convex spine; long face, more often wide and rounded in women; deep chin.
Pamirian
Opaque-white skin, brunet hair and eyes, abbundant pilosity; medium stature (166), sturdy body build; wide head with rounded occiput (87); very long face, straight and narrow nose (57) with high bridge; thin lips, narrow eye opening.
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Post by preddinarid on Oct 7, 2012 22:39:04 GMT -5
Greetings preddinarid! Welcome to the HU. He's an educated guy I found at Egyptsearch, so I gave him the link to this forum. I don't use that site anymore though after it went down hill. Take for example a look at a typical recent thread: www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=007900There is no shortage of these straw man threads set up by Afrocentrics, and it is impossible to reason or even debate with them. Look at the stupidity of one poster: "Here we see also see two pygmy women with thin noses, not broad". Yet if you look at the photo, both women are clearly platyrrhine nosed. LMAO. The troll who created that straw man thread, I also exposed here: www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=007834Note what he posts: Yet the real quotation from Carleton Coon's The Living Races of Man reads: "Beyond them and among them are the Fula or Peul, and the related Fulani, cattle people who have invaded the agricultural regions of the western Sudan, founded dynasties, and been overthrown from time to time. All of them are Caucasoids in a sense, and somewhat Negroid. The Fula are noted for their lean build and narrow faces, like the Somalis, but they are lighter in slighter skin color, being usually a light reddish brown.." (Coon, 1965, p. 122) See how the Afrocentric completely cut a line out! This is all they do: lie, distort or set up straw man/troll threads. You couldn't get any more pathetic. Oh yes, these are also the same people who deny that Negroids have prognathism They say that a Caucasoid with a medical deformity has natural prognathism They are very silly and that forum isn't really of any interest to me anymore. Even when you show them profile shots of Negroes with natural prognathism, they say it isn't real or that "it's an exception". The fact being that most Negroid populations do have this trait. Regarding the Alpine race; I think most Germans are actually Alpine where as the "Nordic" consists of Northern Germany/Sweden/Denmark, etc.. The Alpine type has an almost "square" type appearance skull wise and is kind of heavy set and slightly stalky in their facial appearance, sort of like natural fat. It's the most robust Caucasoid type I think and Austrians/Hungarians have it frequently as well. Dinaric's are also an important element in the Czech Republic or so I'm told and is sort of even with Alpine in commonality. Most Czech's I've seen have a rather "broad" facial appearance.
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Post by Noah on Oct 8, 2012 8:16:09 GMT -5
Cool. The more the merrier. The Caucasoid Pygmy thread seems more a lame attempt at satire than anything. Like any scholar worth his/her salt would propose such an oxymoronic taxon. Ridiculous anthropology sections on that forum, though. They had the potential (at least in theory) to be a good source of info on Hamitic peoples. Unfortunately, it would appear that lack of moderation has allowed the board to be overrun by fools of all types who think that their alien ancestors had ties with Ancient Egypt. Also note the cherry-picked photos. It's an old standby for Afrocentrists in general to post pictures of people from all populations that they believe are as close to their own phenotype as possible, and vice versa. Halle Berry -- who is actually predominantly Caucasoid -- is thus often their go-to girl for what the average African American looks like. If they were honest, however, they would instead post pics of folks like the early African Americans below because that is precisely what their ancestors looked like a short 200 years ago, prior to European and/or Native American admixture: I recall stumbling upon a rather large thread someplace on that ES board where they posted a bunch of pictures of West African-looking people and insisted that those were somehow representative of Egyptians. You'll also rarely if ever see Afrocentrists post images of Horners like the Somalis in the pics below, though such peoples are legion. This is because they understand that doing so undermines their entire strategy of attempting to claim Ancient Egyptian civilization by proxy, through Horners and/or other Hamitic peoples. Perhaps I should start an official Hamitic Image Gallery here on the HU showing photos of the various Hamitic peoples. The thread will at the very least have to be a sticky.
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Post by Noah on Oct 8, 2012 8:33:17 GMT -5
Biasutti posited that Hamitic peoples were "metamorphic" i.e. a kind of stabilized new race produced by admixture. Modern genome-wide genetic studies, however, do not support this. They show Hamitic peoples as predominantly Caucasoid at K=2/K=3, with varying degrees of secondary Sub-Saharan admixture. Only in the later Ks do unique sub-clusters begin to appear, groupings which are of course ultimately derived from the earlier components. For his part, Czekanowski, like Seligman and many other authorities, did, however, recognize the Hamitic reality: Seligman also attempted to prove the hypothesis that successive waves of Hamites had scattered all through the Nilotic area and East Africa. He attempted to trace their influence, not only through comparisons of their physical type with that of pre-dynastic Egyptians, but also through cultural evidences, such as presence of the Divine King complex (11), burial customs, the presence of otiose high gods and the cult of the dead, and above all, the cattle complex[...] Czekanowski, following Seligman, attempts to reconstruct the history of East Africa in terms of a Hamitic wave pouring out of Abyssinia around 1,000 B.C."
books.google.com/books?id=RW95AAAAMAAJ&q=%22Seligman+also+attempted+to+prove%22&dq=%22Seligman+also+attempted+to+prove%22&source=bl&ots=o9PBFDmebL&sig=E7tq5GB1uGEmThdm1HWN4vj1eAc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=J7xyUIDFLKe30AHW5YGADA&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ
Yeah, the usual nonsense. But the quote itself is also somewhat selective since Coon obviously never considered the predominantly Negroid Hausa to be Caucasoid. He had far too much sense to reach that conclusion. He regarded their aristocracy as being of partial Caucasoid descent, by way of admixture with North Africans. On the other hand, Coon did acknowledge a significant Caucasoid component in the Fulani. He knew, however, that that component was biologically positioned somewhere between actual Hamitic peoples and Negroids since the Fulani today are a mixture of North and West Africans (as autosomal DNA studies show). In other words, Coon, like most authorities, regarded North Africa and the Horn as the two hubs of Caucasoid influence on the continent: "Atlanto-Mediterranean: The tall, straight-nosed Mediterranean, not mesocephalic, as Deniker erroneously stated, but strongly dolichocephalic. Today this race forms the principal element in the population of North Africa, and is strong in Iraq, Palestine, parts of Arabia, and the eastern Balkans; in solution with varying degrees of negroid it is also the principal race in the whole of East Africa. In Europe it is a minority element in the Iberian Peninsula, Italy, and the British Isles."
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Post by Noah on Oct 8, 2012 8:40:19 GMT -5
Oh yes, these are also the same people who deny that Negroids have prognathism They say that a Caucasoid with a medical deformity has natural prognathism They are very silly and that forum isn't really of any interest to me anymore. Even when you show them profile shots of Negroes with natural prognathism, they say it isn't real or that "it's an exception". The fact being that most Negroid populations do have this trait. Indeed. Prognathism is a characteristic Negroid trait. Prognathism (M40/M5):
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