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Post by preddinarid on Dec 4, 2012 21:47:25 GMT -5
southern Italians have lower IQ's than northern Italians. On that basis, it's rather doubtful. The Middle Eastern value for Southern Italy/Sicily seems exaggerated. 33% Middle Eastern genetically? They're basically tied with Ashkenazim Jews in terms of Europeaness which doesn't seem accurate at all. Maybe if you take Sicily out of the equation, it becomes a lot less. I just think this is a bit much. Maybe a miscalculation. The Middle Eastern component is itself a Caucasoid element; albeit of a different type from the autochthonous European component.Yes, I think the Middle Eastern percentage is far to exaggerated while Hungary is 100% European, even though they have Mongoloid admixture from Huns. This is why I don't believe these "charts".
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Post by preddinarid on Dec 5, 2012 0:01:03 GMT -5
I believe the whole colder climate/higher IQ logic since it makes sense. However, there are always discrepancies so it's not 100% set in stone. Currently, the man with the world's highest IQ is a Greek.
I don't like the whole Nordic/Anglo vs Mediterranean feud at all. I'm a mixture of both Southern and Northern European and I think it's just ridiculous. Europeans generally average out around each-other on genetic clusters and so forth. They're not "far" apart at all despite what Liberal media on television would lead you to believe.
Attacking Northern Europeans doesn't make sense seeing as how Germans provided some of the best inventions Europe had to offer. The Brits also did wonders in the Arts and as well partook in some useful inventions of their own.
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Post by Noah on Dec 6, 2012 0:53:30 GMT -5
Lynn's findings are not seldom counterintuitive, and in many cases even guesswork. For example, in his book IQ and the Wealth of Nations, he doesn't actually have IQ data on many of the populations whose respective IQs he purports to show. He instead infers what he believes their IQ might be based on how neighboring populations that were studied, often under adverse circumstances, performed in aptitude tests. He calls this method "Estimated National IQs".
The forthright thing to do here would be to simply concede that one does not have IQ data on a given population, and then omit them for one's presentation. But Lynn doesn't do that.
As was stated, part of his thesis seems to be built around the notion that there are lower IQs in certain areas in Europe and that this is partly attributable to greater Middle Eastern influence. It's ironic considering the Neolithic Revolution and the many great circum-Mediterranean civilizations.
As the old saying goes: Il faut rendre à César ce qui appartient à César ("One must give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar").
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Post by Noah on Dec 6, 2012 0:58:31 GMT -5
The genetic studies should be viewed as works in progress. Whatever component is predominant in a given population tends to increase as more genetic markers are analysed and more of an individual's genome is consequently taken into consideration. The inverse happens with minority elements. So the process is continuously refined in this way. At the moment, 23andme is among the better genetic testing companies since it analyses considerably more markers than most other comparable research outfits. The firm recently began offering exome sequencing to its existing customers. Full genome sequencing is even more powerful and it too is already here. It presently costs around $1000, with the average price dropping fast.
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Post by Atlantid on Dec 6, 2012 13:44:17 GMT -5
The genetic studies should be viewed as works in progress. Whatever component is predominant in a given population tends to increase as more genetic markers are analysed and more of an individual's genome is consequently taken into consideration. The inverse happens with minority elements. So the process is continuously refined in this way. At the moment, 23andme is among the better genetic testing companies since it analyses considerably more markers than most other comparable research outfits. The firm recently began offering exome sequencing to its existing customers. Full genome sequencing is even more powerful and it too is already here. It presently costs around $1000, with the average price dropping fast. It tells us nothing about race. For example if my results come back saying 100% genetically "Northern European", I could have olive skin, brown hair and dark eyes (I don't in reality). Genetics is completely at odds with race typology. If I came back 100% "Middle-Eastern" what would that tell me? Nothing. I could be Irano-Nordid, Armenoid, Syrid, Orientalid etc.
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Post by preddinarid on Dec 6, 2012 18:36:53 GMT -5
The genetic studies should be viewed as works in progress. Whatever component is predominant in a given population tends to increase as more genetic markers are analysed and more of an individual's genome is consequently taken into consideration. The inverse happens with minority elements. So the process is continuously refined in this way. At the moment, 23andme is among the better genetic testing companies since it analyses considerably more markers than most other comparable research outfits. The firm recently began offering exome sequencing to its existing customers. Full genome sequencing is even more powerful and it too is already here. It presently costs around $1000, with the average price dropping fast. It tells us nothing about race. For example if my results come back saying 100% genetically "Northern European", I could have olive skin, brown hair and dark eyes (I don't in reality). Genetics is completely at odds with race typology. If I came back 100% "Middle-Eastern" what would that tell me? Nothing. I could be Irano-Nordid, Armenoid, Syrid, Orientalid etc. Skin color doesn't really mean anything in racial formation either. If you took a person with olive skin, gave them a lighter tone, lighter eyes, and lighter hair, etc. they'd look nothing like a "foreigner" since their basic body format would be Caucasoid. I know you know this, I was just saying it to re-affirm for myself and maybe educate others. I recently got J1 as my haplogroup, but haplogroups are useless so I essentially wasted money. There are also people in Scotland with haplogroup J1, that doesn't mean anything though since it's a Caucasoid haplogroup anyways. If I took one of 23andme's ancestry paintings, it would probably come back as mostly Mediterranean European, Northern European, and perhaps some degree of West Asian component. Maybe a small % of North African as well since Caucasoids and their ancestors used to live there. I wouldn't be expecting SSA or East Asian admixture, if any at all.
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Post by Noah on Dec 7, 2012 3:44:37 GMT -5
If I took one of 23andme's ancestry paintings, it would probably come back as mostly Mediterranean European, Northern European, and perhaps some degree of West Asian component. Maybe a small % of North African as well since Caucasoids and their ancestors used to live there. I wouldn't be expecting SSA or East Asian admixture, if any at all. The range of Caucasoid inhabitation has traditionally been broader than that. It also includes areas in the Sahara, Horn of Africa and South Asia. 23andme's Ancestry Painting would likely place you somewhere in the 60%+ spectrum for Europe (read: West Eurasia); perhaps also with some ties to Africa (read: Sub-Saharan Africa) and Asia. This is typically how Caucasoid-origin peoples show up on the platform. Your painting would probably look something like this: It tells us nothing about race. For example if my results come back saying 100% genetically "Northern European", I could have olive skin, brown hair and dark eyes (I don't in reality). Genetics is completely at odds with race typology. If I came back 100% "Middle-Eastern" what would that tell me? Nothing. I could be Irano-Nordid, Armenoid, Syrid, Orientalid etc. Along with environmental factors, genetics largely determine phenotype or observable characteristics.
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Post by Atlantid on Dec 9, 2012 9:01:43 GMT -5
Along with environmental factors, genetics largely determine phenotype or observable characteristics. Gene pools are not strictly synonymous with races/subraces, this is what Krantz (1980) shows (edit: its best to call them types), alongside earlier typologists such as Czekanowski. As Czekanowski pointed out, an Italian clusters genetically with an Italian despite his subrace, but they can be completely seperate subracial types. Thus an Italian Alpine will share the same gene pool as an Italian Med, despite being a different racial type. As an example at the higher subspecies level, if two often interbreeded and live in close proximity they are genetically related despite being phenotypically distinct: Capoids and Congoids or Australoids and Negritos. Yet most modern genetic clusterings these days lumps these together. Race typology is completely opposed to populationist genetics. Some anthropologists attempted to mix the two though, such as Carleton Coon in his later studies.
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Post by Noah on Dec 10, 2012 4:42:51 GMT -5
Gene pools are not strictly synonymous with races/subraces, this is what Krantz (1980) shows, alongside earlier typologists such as Czekanowski. As Czekanowski pointed out, an Italian clusters genetically with an Italian despite his subrace, but they can be completely seperate subracial types. Thus an Italian Alpine will share the same gene pool as an Italian Med, despite being a different racial type. "Mediterranean" has its counterpart in genetics. "Alpine", on the other hand, does not. It's a morphological sub-type that is useful in describing some of the more salient physical characteristics in a given individual or population. As an example at the higher subspecies level, if two often interbreeded and live in close proximity they are genetically related despite being phenotypically distinct: Capoids and Congoids or Australoids and Negritos. Yet most modern genetic clusterings these days lumps these together. Capoids/Khoisan and Congoids/Negroids actually are not entirely phenotypically distinct. For example, they cluster together in global craniometric studies. So do Australoids and Negritos. Populations that often interbreed tend to share some physical commonalities, even if this was not originally the case. This situation arises because their members have exchanged genes, which has the effect of bringing the groups closer together both genetically and phenotypically. The challenge, then, is in sorting out whether two populations are similar because of shared deep ancestry, or simply due to interbreeding or convergent evolution in similar environments, or perhaps a combination of these processes. Analysis of uniparental DNA markers (which unveils historical migration episodes that have likely taken place) in conjunction with autosomal DNA (which both identifies and quantifies a person's ancestral genetic components) helps accomplish this.
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Post by Noah on Dec 17, 2012 23:02:48 GMT -5
Just noticed something interesting about the Grimaldi. They rather closely resemble the Tenerians who inhabited Gobero in the Green Sahara. Compare the Tenerian skull below with the Grimaldi cranium after it. They are similar in many respects, right down to their peculiar projecting front teeth: Recall that the small, lean Tenerians craniometrically more closely resemble groups in the modern Mediterranean region rather than the taller Kiffians, Iberomaurusians and Capsians, who cluster closer together. "The shapes of the Ténérian skulls are puzzling, researchers said, because they resemble those of Mediterranean people, not other nearby groups."
www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/science/15sahara.html?_r=0
This, in turn, is consistent with Carleton Coon's assertion that "the Grimaldi child was no more Negroid than the Palestinians of Skhul and many living Europeans of the Mediterranean region.''
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