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Post by hamiticev13 on Dec 12, 2012 2:18:56 GMT -5
2012 12 12 12:12am
An Amazing begining, planted very small like a mustard seed.
Pirke De-Rabbi Eliezer (c. 833) relates the Jewish traditions that the Hamitic Nimrod inherited the garments of Adam and Eve from his father Cush, and that these made him invincible. Nimrod's party then defeated their oppresors to assume universal rulership.
(part of Clementine literature) states that The Hamitic Nimrod "saw in the sky a piece of black cloth and a crown." He called upon Sasan the weaver and commanded him to make him a crown like it, which he set jewels on and wore. He was allegedly the first king to wear a crown. "For this reason people who knew nothing about it, said that a crown came down to him from heaven."
The Revival of the Hamitic Roman Latinus has begun!
One Head looks Towards Latin Europe (E-M35 gene pool - Kosovo (our root Origins), Albania, Italy Rome, Greece, Macedonia, Montenegro).
One Head looks Towards Latin America (E-M35 gene pool - from Mexico to Argentina, including the ones on the USA and Canada).
The Gates of Elohim were open it at 2012 12 12 12:12am
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Post by hamiticev13 on Dec 12, 2012 19:25:49 GMT -5
2012 12 12 12:12 pm passed
This completes the Hamitic E-V13 E-M35 double headed Eagle ceremony
One head 12:12 am
One head 12:12 pm
One head Latin Europe
One head Latin America
We the Hamitic E-V13 E-M35 are now managing again the Main Gate of Elohim.
In Sign of Peace and Good will, we erected a Latin Cross!
2012 12 12 12:12pm
Now we are getting back all our Hamitic Symbols
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Post by hamiticev13 on Dec 13, 2012 0:37:06 GMT -5
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Post by Noah on Dec 13, 2012 23:53:53 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see what you put on the blog's Origin of Haplogroup E tab. This thread certainly has some helpful, even game-changing material on the topic. Case in point: concrete evidence of the early presence of the Hamitic haplogroup E1b1b in Neolithic through to Roman-period Europe, and West Eurasian affiliation for the maternal lineages of pretty much all, if not close to all, these analysed E1b1b carriers. This is consistent with haplogroup E or its parent clade DE originating with males belonging to a population of general West Eurasian affinities. hamiticunion.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=general&thread=4&post=542 |
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Post by Atlantid on Dec 20, 2012 21:47:21 GMT -5
Actually the Bible doesn't say that Blacks are from Africa at all, the word "Black" is something that the ancient Hebrews never used since a lot of them were dark skinned themselves. The Bible says that the Curse of Noah on Ham went to his son Canaan. Now would the Hebrews say that the Canaanites were cursed and God hated them? They never said that the Canaanites were "Black" at all they just said that Canaan and his descedents were cursed. And the main reason why the Hebrews would write this is because they and the Canaanites were enemies and they were fighting. The Canaanites had lived in the Land of Canaan for a long, long, long time and then the Hebrews who are Semites from modern day Iraq were taking them out. They were sworn enemies, this is why the Bible pointed and said that Canaan was cursed. Now the Mizraimites or Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews but they weren't cursed at all, niether were they considered to be cursed. The Cushites who lived in Iraq, Northern Arabia, and Africa were the most kind to the Hebrews and in fact Moses married amongst the Midianites a Northern Arabian Cushitic tribe, Moses himself looked Egyptian. Many Hebrews were called Cushite like the prophet Zephaniah ben Cushi. So the word "Black" was something alien to the Hebrews and an oxymoron lol! They were dark themselves and calling others "black" as if they were foriegn was something out of the question. The Canaanites were the main enemy of the Hebrews this is why they were called cursed in the Bible. Other surrounding Canaanite tribes fought the Israelites as well such as the Amorites, or the Israelites own cousins the Edomites (Edom means "Red"), who were considered to be a reddish-brown people (like what Somalis say Mareen) and lived in the region of Edom a land where the sand was red and the mountains red in modern day Jordan and Northern Arabia. So they didn't use the words "White" and "Black" which was completly alien to the ancient world. Good post. However they actually had terms for Black/White. Those terms though weren't applied to the polar Nordid/Negroid physiognomies as today they are associated. Laban throughout the Old Testament translates as "white", and it was a term applied to the northern leuco-syrians who had fairer skin than the average Hebrew who was more olive/light brown. |
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Post by Atlantid on Dec 20, 2012 21:54:28 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see what you put on the blog's Origin of Haplogroup E tab. This thread certainly has some helpful, even game-changing material on the topic. Case in point: concrete evidence of the early presence of the Hamitic haplogroup E1b1b in Neolithic through to Roman-period Europe, and West Eurasian affiliation for the maternal lineages of pretty much all, if not close to all, these analysed E1b1b carriers. This is consistent with haplogroup E or its parent clade DE originating with males belonging to a population of general West Eurasian affinities. hamiticunion.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=general&thread=4&post=542I don't do genetics at all, however looking at this map:  By location i'm <1%.  |
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Post by Noah on Dec 21, 2012 19:30:54 GMT -5
I don't do genetics at all Okay, but that's like showing up at a boxing match with one hand tied behind your back. |
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Post by Noah on Jan 10, 2013 18:41:34 GMT -5
Just came across this great new blog on haplogroup E1b1b1-M35: www.e1b1b1-m35.info/Credit goes to HU's own hamiticev13, who was good enough to link to it on her website. |
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Post by alaujani on Jan 15, 2013 17:11:20 GMT -5
HOw recognized is the Hamitic race to the masses of people ? IF I was to present this to everyday people in my locale, then they would not be very familiar with it.
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Post by alaujani on Jan 15, 2013 17:22:55 GMT -5
e1b1a and e1b1b are descendants of e1b1? I am assuming from the beginning pages that e1b1b is older? e1b1b is considered Hamitic and e1b1a is not because they cluster with A & B y -dna while e1b1b cluster with peoples in the europe, asia, north-east africa. and plus they have the most subsets.
e1b1a is Bantu? even though his parent clade is not and brother E-M215 is not.
So what exactly is the definition of a hamite?
Who made the definition of a Hamite?
Is being a HAmite applicable when the elb1b carriers may foster vastly different cultures and ethnicities?
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Post by Noah on Jan 15, 2013 21:56:22 GMT -5
The answers to your questions are in the first post of this thread.  |
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Post by alaujani on Jan 16, 2013 4:59:30 GMT -5
I didnt find an answer to this though, did e1b1a form through intermarriage with pygmies and bushmen or was e1b1a originally caucasoid
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Post by Noah on Jan 16, 2013 7:08:24 GMT -5
A refresher on some of the basics:  Every genetic study extant places the origins of haplogroup E either in Northeast Africa or in Eurasia. None associate the clade's origins directly with Negroid populations. Despite this, confusion (primarily among laypeople) seems to surround the haplogroup's population affinities. This mainly has to do with the fact that numerous (though not all) modern Negroid peoples carry the clade. This thread helps explain why they do, as well as how, when and through what mechanism(s) those Negroid peoples acquired haplogroup E in the first place from the Hamitic folk it originated with. While many Negroid populations today carry haplogroup E lineages, this was not the case only a few centuries ago. This has to do with the fact that: 1) The oldest Negroid skeletal remains that have ever been found are only about 12,000 years old i.e. tens of thousands of years younger than when the mutation that defines haplogroup E first arose. "On the basis of genetic and archaeological data, black Africans seem to have radiated from a relatively small West African and possibly pygmy population within the last 20,000 years (Coon, 1962, pp. 651-656; Spurdle et al., 1994; Watson et al., 1996). The time and place of origin can be further narrowed down with linguistic data. Speakers of proto-Niger Congo broke up c. 10,000 BP and the oldest derived group appear to be proto-Mande speakers, whose descendants inhabit the Niger's headwaters near the Mali-Guinea border (Blench, 1984, pp. 128-129; Ehret, 1984; Murdock, 1959, pp. 44, 64-68)[...] Thus, black Africans were still absent from most of sub-Saharan Africa even within historic times. When the Egyptians began to build their pyramids, the peoples living to the south were scarcely darker in color. They were simply seen as uncivilized Egyptians. Thus, the civilized world initially encountered a much narrower range of human phenotypes than it would later on. This context shaped the intellectual worldview in its early stages, including theorizing on universal brotherhood. To a degree not easy to assess, we are heirs to notions of human sameness that were first conceived ‘before Africa became black’."
evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/02/origins-of-black-africans.html
racialreality.blogspot.com/search?q=Asselar
2) Haplogroup E and its parent clade haplogroup DE originated with Northeast Africans (or possibly even Near Easterners), not with Bantus. This is because Horners have the highest frequencies of haplogroup E, the highest variety of different sub-clades of the haplogroup (i.e. the highest diversity), and the exclusive presence of the oldest branches of the haplogroup. "The presence of two underived E-M96 Saudi lineages raises interesting questions related to the macrohaplogroup DE-YAP phylogeography. The recent resolutions of the CDEF-M168 tripartite structure to the bipartite DE-YAP and CF-P143 [16,31] extends the conversation regarding the early successful colonization of Eurasia. While several scenarios remain potentially possible the most parsimonious model is the most prudent. This model proposes the successful colonization of Eurasia by migration(s) of populations containing precursor Y-chromosome founder macrohaplogroup CDET-M168 and basal mtDNA L3 representatives. Regions near but external to northeast Africa, like the Levant or the southern Arabian Peninsula could have served as an incubator for the early diversification of non-African uniparental haplogroup varieties like Y chromosome DE-YAP*, CF-P143* and mtDNA M and N molecular ancestors. These would have spread globally and diversified over time and space. This model would imply that both CF-P143 and the DE-YAP evolved nearby but outside Africa. One DE-YAP* ancestor would have spread to Asia and evolved to haplogroup D while another DE-YAP* returned to northeast Africa and evolved into hg E."
www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/10/59
"Y-DNA haplogroup E would appear to have arisen in Northeast Africa based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration[...] E1b1b1 probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. Eb1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa."
www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE.html
3) Bantus only recently acquired the haplogroup by assimilating some Afro-Asiatic males in Northeast Africa, which is why the most common haplogroup E lineage Bantus possess (namely, E1b1a/E3a) is only about 10,000 years old. The haplogroup, along with the Bantu languages, was then spread to the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa by Bantu intermediaries via the Bantu expansion of 3500 years ago. "E1b1a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern African to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion."
www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion
In the process, the migrating Bantus' paternal DNA (haplogroup E lineages) replaced the pre-existing Y-DNA haplogroups in the previously Khoisan, Pygmy (hunter-gatherer) and Afro-Asiatic-inhabited regions of southern and southeastern Africa that they invaded. "The data presented demonstrate a recent origin for most paternal lineages in west-central Africa as a result of the "Bantu expansion" that erased the Y-chromosome diversity previously found. However, some traces of ancient paternal lineages are found, mainly in hunter-gathererers. These results contrast with the data provided by mtDNA, where ancient lineages are found and substantial maternal gene flow from hunter-gatherers to Bantu-farmers has been suggested."
books.google.ca/books?id=X_cac38pfmAC&pg=PT117#v=onepage&q&f=false
4) Bantus share their deepest ancestry with Pygmies, not with Northeast Africans: www.pnas.org/content/105/5/1596.fullwww.pasteur.fr/ip/easysite/go/03b-000021-01g/the-history-of-central-african-pygmy-and-bantu-farmer-populationsanthropology.net/2008/02/12/mtdna-shows-pygmy-hunter-gathers-have-a-deep-ancestry-with-bantu-farmers/In other words, the original paternal haplogroups of Bantus and all other Negroid peoples were until recently the Paleo-African A and B clades that are still common in Pygmies and Khoisan relict populations, not haplogroup E lineages. 5) Most Negroid peoples speak languages from the Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan and Khoisan language families -- none of which are genetically related to the Afro-Asiatic language family spoken by most Hamitic peoples. Afro-Asiatic's nearest relatives are language families that are overwhelmingly spoken by populations with Caucasoid physiognomies, together with which it is grouped in the Nostratic and Borean super-phylums. "It is clear that the Borean hypothesis involves a super-phylum some of whose sub-taxa are themselves super-phyla. The term phyletic chain is introduced as a better label, particularly because the Borean groups show a chain like distribution from southern Ethiopia through southwestern Eurasia to northeast Asia and down to the end of the New World. Borean has clear similarities to Swadesh's Vasco-Dene. Borean is predominantly associated with human populations of "Caucasoid" or "Northern Mongoloid" physical appearance, the major exceptions being southern India, southern China, southwestern Ethiopia, northern Nigeria, and the Chad Republic. Borean as a chain is closely associated with the appearance of the Upper Paleolithic in the Levant, Europe, and western Eurasia from 50,000 to 45,000 years ago."
greenberg-conference.stanford.edu/Fleming_Abstract.htm
starling.rinet.ru/maps/maps17.php?lan=en
This at the very least suggests a proto-Caucasoid origin for not only haplogroup E, but for the more upstream haplogroup CT too. It also reinforces the observation that haplogroup E is not the original paternal lineage of Bantus, Nilotes and other Negroid populations, but rather one that they later acquired. 6) Bantus, Nilotes and other Negroid populations cluster with Pygmies and the Khoisan (modern Paleo-Africans) in autosomal DNA tests instead of with haplogroup CT-descended Eurasian populations (the latter of which encompasses the rest of the world). "studies support a primary division of human populations into sub-Saharan Africans and Eurasian populations"
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003399502011401
This as well all but confirms that the haplogroup CT-descended clade E was not the original paternal lineage of any Negroid peoples. Rather, it was and is primarily a Hamitic Caucasoid marker. |
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Post by alaujani on Jan 16, 2013 23:13:09 GMT -5
A refresher on some of the basics: Every genetic study extant places the origins of haplogroup E either in Northeast Africa or in Eurasia. None associate the clade's origins directly with Negroid populations. Despite this, confusion (primarily among laypeople) seems to surround the haplogroup's population affinities. This mainly has to do with the fact that numerous (though not all) modern Negroid peoples carry the clade. This thread helps explain why they do, as well as how, when and through what mechanism(s) those Negroid peoples acquired haplogroup E in the first place from the Hamitic folk it originated with. While many Negroid populations today carry haplogroup E lineages, this was not the case only a few centuries ago. This has to do with the fact that: 1) The oldest Negroid skeletal remains that have ever been found are only about 12,000 years old i.e. tens of thousands of years younger than when the mutation that defines haplogroup E first arose. "On the basis of genetic and archaeological data, black Africans seem to have radiated from a relatively small West African and possibly pygmy population within the last 20,000 years (Coon, 1962, pp. 651-656; Spurdle et al., 1994; Watson et al., 1996). The time and place of origin can be further narrowed down with linguistic data. Speakers of proto-Niger Congo broke up c. 10,000 BP and the oldest derived group appear to be proto-Mande speakers, whose descendants inhabit the Niger's headwaters near the Mali-Guinea border (Blench, 1984, pp. 128-129; Ehret, 1984; Murdock, 1959, pp. 44, 64-68)[...] Thus, black Africans were still absent from most of sub-Saharan Africa even within historic times. When the Egyptians began to build their pyramids, the peoples living to the south were scarcely darker in color. They were simply seen as uncivilized Egyptians. Thus, the civilized world initially encountered a much narrower range of human phenotypes than it would later on. This context shaped the intellectual worldview in its early stages, including theorizing on universal brotherhood. To a degree not easy to assess, we are heirs to notions of human sameness that were first conceived ‘before Africa became black’."
evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/02/origins-of-black-africans.html
racialreality.blogspot.com/search?q=Asselar
2) Haplogroup E and its parent clade haplogroup DE originated with Northeast Africans (or possibly even Near Easterners), not with Bantus. This is because Horners have the highest frequencies of haplogroup E, the highest variety of different sub-clades of the haplogroup (i.e. the highest diversity), and the exclusive presence of the oldest branches of the haplogroup. "The presence of two underived E-M96 Saudi lineages raises interesting questions related to the macrohaplogroup DE-YAP phylogeography. The recent resolutions of the CDEF-M168 tripartite structure to the bipartite DE-YAP and CF-P143 [16,31] extends the conversation regarding the early successful colonization of Eurasia. While several scenarios remain potentially possible the most parsimonious model is the most prudent. This model proposes the successful colonization of Eurasia by migration(s) of populations containing precursor Y-chromosome founder macrohaplogroup CDET-M168 and basal mtDNA L3 representatives. Regions near but external to northeast Africa, like the Levant or the southern Arabian Peninsula could have served as an incubator for the early diversification of non-African uniparental haplogroup varieties like Y chromosome DE-YAP*, CF-P143* and mtDNA M and N molecular ancestors. These would have spread globally and diversified over time and space. This model would imply that both CF-P143 and the DE-YAP evolved nearby but outside Africa. One DE-YAP* ancestor would have spread to Asia and evolved to haplogroup D while another DE-YAP* returned to northeast Africa and evolved into hg E."
www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/10/59
"Y-DNA haplogroup E would appear to have arisen in Northeast Africa based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration[...] E1b1b1 probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. Eb1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa."
www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE.html
3) Bantus only recently acquired the haplogroup by assimilating some Afro-Asiatic males in Northeast Africa, which is why the most common haplogroup E lineage Bantus possess (namely, E1b1a/E3a) is only about 10,000 years old. The haplogroup, along with the Bantu languages, was then spread to the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa by Bantu intermediaries via the Bantu expansion of 3500 years ago. "E1b1a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern African to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion."
www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion
In the process, the migrating Bantus' paternal DNA (haplogroup E lineages) replaced the pre-existing Y-DNA haplogroups in the previously Khoisan, Pygmy (hunter-gatherer) and Afro-Asiatic-inhabited regions of southern and southeastern Africa that they invaded. "The data presented demonstrate a recent origin for most paternal lineages in west-central Africa as a result of the "Bantu expansion" that erased the Y-chromosome diversity previously found. However, some traces of ancient paternal lineages are found, mainly in hunter-gathererers. These results contrast with the data provided by mtDNA, where ancient lineages are found and substantial maternal gene flow from hunter-gatherers to Bantu-farmers has been suggested."
books.google.ca/books?id=X_cac38pfmAC&pg=PT117#v=onepage&q&f=false
4) Bantus share their deepest ancestry with Pygmies, not with Northeast Africans: www.pnas.org/content/105/5/1596.fullwww.pasteur.fr/ip/easysite/go/03b-000021-01g/the-history-of-central-african-pygmy-and-bantu-farmer-populationsanthropology.net/2008/02/12/mtdna-shows-pygmy-hunter-gathers-have-a-deep-ancestry-with-bantu-farmers/In other words, the original paternal haplogroups of Bantus and all other Negroid peoples were until recently the Paleo-African A and B clades that are still common in Pygmies and Khoisan relict populations, not haplogroup E lineages. 5) Most Negroid peoples speak languages from the Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan and Khoisan language families -- none of which are genetically related to the Afro-Asiatic language family spoken by most Hamitic peoples. Afro-Asiatic's nearest relatives are language families that are overwhelmingly spoken by populations with Caucasoid physiognomies, together with which it is grouped in the Nostratic and Borean super-phylums. "It is clear that the Borean hypothesis involves a super-phylum some of whose sub-taxa are themselves super-phyla. The term phyletic chain is introduced as a better label, particularly because the Borean groups show a chain like distribution from southern Ethiopia through southwestern Eurasia to northeast Asia and down to the end of the New World. Borean has clear similarities to Swadesh's Vasco-Dene. Borean is predominantly associated with human populations of "Caucasoid" or "Northern Mongoloid" physical appearance, the major exceptions being southern India, southern China, southwestern Ethiopia, northern Nigeria, and the Chad Republic. Borean as a chain is closely associated with the appearance of the Upper Paleolithic in the Levant, Europe, and western Eurasia from 50,000 to 45,000 years ago."
greenberg-conference.stanford.edu/Fleming_Abstract.htm
starling.rinet.ru/maps/maps17.php?lan=en
This at the very least suggests a proto-Caucasoid origin for not only haplogroup E, but for the more upstream haplogroup CT too. It also reinforces the observation that haplogroup E is not the original paternal lineage of Bantus, Nilotes and other Negroid populations, but rather one that they later acquired. 6) Bantus, Nilotes and other Negroid populations cluster with Pygmies and the Khoisan (modern Paleo-Africans) in autosomal DNA tests instead of with haplogroup CT-descended Eurasian populations (the latter of which encompasses the rest of the world). "studies support a primary division of human populations into sub-Saharan Africans and Eurasian populations"
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003399502011401
This as well all but confirms that the haplogroup CT-descended clade E was not the original paternal lineage of any Negroid peoples. Rather, it was and is primarily a Hamitic Caucasoid marker. This implies then that the intitial E1b1a carriers were caucasoid look at what a forum member says here: s-jjj.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1135&page=2 This shows it's(E-M2) presence in millions of carriers of the citizens of Arab countries and in individuals of pure Arab tribes. It is 20,000-30,000 yrs old and is older than than the Negro African race. I believe the Ramesses III mummy dna analysis adds to this as this a pic of him according to the Egyptians 
* Hawass at al. 2012, Revisiting the harem conspiracy and death of Ramesses III: anthropological, forensic, radiological, and genetic study. BMJ2012;345doi: dx.doi.org/10.1136/bmj.e8268 Published 17 December 2012 The Bantu report of sharing autosmonal dna with pygmies was done on a population that lived near pygmies. Wouldnt this add extra help because like the above said e1b1a is found in eurasian/north-east african populations and one thread here has found eurasian dna in west african populations were pygmies and bushman are not too many. By the way paleoid-african A is found in tribal Arabs too. |
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Post by Noah on Jan 17, 2013 9:16:51 GMT -5
This implies then that the intitial E1b1a carriers were caucasoid The population in which the mutation that defines haplogroup E1b1a first occurred may indeed have been Caucasoid, or at least moving in that direction. Alternatively, that population could have already been Negroid by that time, like most modern carriers of the E1b1a sub-clade. It all depends on when exactly the admixture event that first introduced haplogroup E to the originally A- and B-carrying Sub-Saharan hunter-gatherers first took place. According to Rosa et al., it wasn't that long ago. This shows it's(E-M2) presence in millions of carriers of the citizens of Arab countries and in individuals of pure Arab tribes. It is 20,000-30,000 yrs old and is older than than the Negro African race. Those are just modern frequencies of E1b1a in the Arabian peninsula. They can easily be explained by admixture with Bantu peoples, likely through the recent slave trade. By the way paleoid-african A is found in tribal Arabs too. Haven't looked into it, but it's probably again from the slave trade. The odd haplogroup A sample pops up every now and again in deeper Asia and Europe for the same or related reasons; so it's not too surprising. I believe the Ramesses III mummy dna analysis adds to this as this a pic of him according to the Egyptians If Ramesses III's results are legitimate, then yes, it certainly does add to the debate on the origins of haplogroup E. The fact that his autosomal microsatellite alleles are apparently more frequent among South Asians and Amerindians than among Sub-Saharan Africans -- despite supposedly belonging to haplogroup E1b1a -- is the most revealing and interesting aspect of the whole affair. The Bantu report of sharing autosmonal dna with pygmies was done on a population that lived near pygmies. Wouldnt this add extra help because like the above said e1b1a is found in eurasian/north-east african populations and one thread here has found eurasian dna in west african populations were pygmies and bushman are not too many. Haplogroup E, like all Eurasian paternal lineages, descends from haplogroup CT. The Paleoafrican haplogroups A and B (which Pygmy, Khoisan and Sudanese Nilotes largely belong to), however, do not. All genome wide studies show that West Africans, Bantus, Nilotes, Pygmies and Khoisan share the majority of their ancestry. This is despite the fact that many West Africans and Bantus today carry haplogroup E. This, in turn, suggests that West Africans and Bantus i.e. Niger-Congo groups (who expanded from West Africa) did not originally belong to haplogroup E, or they would have clustered with other haplogroup CT carriers instead of with bearers of the Paleoafrican A and B haplogroups. By the same token, the many modern European populations that carry haplogroup E1b1b-V13 do not pull closer to Sub-Saharan groups than do the non-E1b1b carrying European groups. They instead cluster with other Europeans. This is consistent with Eurasian affinities for the original haplogroup E-carrying population. The traces of West Eurasian ancestry that have been found in varying degrees in Negroid, Khoisan and Pygmy populations could at least in part represent vestiges of these original haplogroup E carriers. |
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